Vangie Buell
VANGIE BUELL
Interviewer: Milton Lee
Supporting: Francis Chen
Also present: Anne Huang, Angela Zusman
Interview date: August 1, 2007
MILTON: Hi, I'm Milton Lee. I'm interviewing Vangie Canonizado Buell. It's Wednesday August 1st, at the Oakland Asian Cultural Center. The first question is: Where were you born and what year?
VANGIE: I was born in San Pedro, California in 1932, and then I was brought up to West Oakland at age six months. So, I was raised here in Oakland.
MILTON: Where in Chinatown or Oakland did you live?
VANGIE: I lived outside on the outskirts of Chinatown, just a few blocks from 18th and Adeline, and also on 12th and Magnolia.
MILTON: Can you tell me about your parents and where they were born? If not in Oakland, or Chinatown, why did they come here? (And what work did they do?)
VANGIE: My parents were from the Philippines. My father was from San Antonio, Zambales. My mother is from Nueva Ecija, the Manila Area in the Philippines, and they came here. My father joined the Navy, the American Navy, in the Philippines, in 1917, and that's how he came here, and my mother came, later, in the 1920s.
MILTON: What are some of your memories of growing up in Oakland Chinatown?
VANGIE: I had lots of memories growing up in this area. Chinatown was our place of destination, perhaps about 2-3 times a week, so I feel like I did live there, because we did so many activities here, especially our grocery shopping. My parents, coming from in Philippines, identified with Chinatown quickly, because [Chinatown] was where we were able to get Philippine ingredients for cooking. So, I spent a lot of time here. We were involved with the people who owned businesses in Chinatown, the Filipinos who did, and there were very few of them, but we came and supported them also, and my [...] Grandmother also had a restaurant here in Chinatown.
MILTON: Why did your family move to Oakland Chinatown?
VANGIE: They really didn't move to Oakland Chinatown. As I said, we spent a lot of time here, because we identified very strongly with the Chinese community. And, my sister went to Lincoln School in Chinatown. And so, we have a lot of connections, because of her going to grammar school, and middle school, here.
MILTON: Growing up, what schools did you go to, and what was it like in class and outside of class?
VANGIE: I went to Cole School, grammar school, and McCylmonds [High School], here in Oakland. And at that time, Oakland was a mixture of people. It was pretty diverse. There were Chinese who lived in our community, as well as Mexican, African-American, Portuguese, Greeks, Czechoslovakian, Italian, and then a very sprinkling of Filipinos; [There were] very few Filipino families, in West Oakland, as well as North Oakland. The schools portray all the different ethnic groups, and I enjoyed the various cultures. There was also Japanese in our community, until they were taken away by the interment camps during World War II; But, I particularly enjoyed the diversity of all the different people and learned a lot of the music, and especially the food, because I was very interested in food, and how it's prepared, and processed, and learning about the culture, that way, through food.
MILTON: Were most of your schoolmates Chinese?
VANGIE: There was a sprinkling of everything, and all races in our groups, ethnic groups, and Chinese. In fact, I had a Chinese boyfriend.
MILTON: During the pre-interview meeting, you told us you went to Chinese School.
VANGIE: Yes, I did. I belonged to the Filipino Church. Filipino Church was started because they were not allowed to worship in Protestant Churches in the Bay Area, because of discrimination. So about six of them started the Filipino Church. It became a place for a cultural center, [and a] educational center for the Filipino kids, particularly. They gave us a lot about our culture, heritage, especially our food. They collaborated with other churches in the area that accepted the Filipinos, and one of them was the Chinese church here in Chinatown, and so, the kids had special programs. We shared special programs at the Chinese Church. I remember some of the things we did there; that is: we learned Chinese, how to count. I can still remember few numbers, but not a lot. We also learned how to count on the abacus. We did lots of drawings, sharing of stories, and dancing; we did a lot of dances, we shared that. It's interesting that, these dances that we did, in special programs that we did, were not accepted in the White community. We couldn't do them there. They wouldn't accept it because they didn't accept us. So it was nice to be able to share it with another culture. Hard to answer this in our songs and music of our culture.
MILTON: Speaking of the Filipino Church, what year was it started?
VANGIE: It started in the mid-[19]40s, because we were going to the church way up until the 50s. Currently, we have been spending a lot of time, researching all the different people who went to the church, because we are doing a book called, Filipinos in the East Bay, and we have discovered a lot about our history, and about the people who founded that church, and some of their photographs.
MILTON: Why did you learn to use the abacus?
VANGIE: Why? Because they were sharing that as one of the activities and part of the Chinese culture, because were learning about Chinese, and all the different customs, food, and, of course, the counting, and how they use it as a way of adding instead of an adding machine, and how they used it in business, and we would go to the stores, where they used the abacus to count; that was the cash register. That was fascinating to me, because they didn't push buttons that rang, and showed numbers, but [instead] it was just done on this, little abacus.
MILTON: Can you describe some of the languages you were exposed to?
VANGIE: Oh, I was exposed to so many! Italian, Mexican; I was a folk singer. I learned a lot about the music of all these different ethnic groups, when I was very young, including my own music. So, I learned the languages of these songs. Mexican, Filipino, and I even learned some Korean songs. I also listened to Chinese music, because I was very fascinated by the pitch of the sound of the Chinese music. For some people, it bothered them, but it didn't bother me. I wanted to learn how it was like. And then, I learned, especially, African-American music; I learned the spirituals, jazz, and gospel, because I heard all of that. We were very lucky to be in a class at McCylmonds, taught us all about the different artists in music. My father, being a great musician, would take us to hear all the Black music; at Slim Jenkins on 7th Street in Oakland; I got to listen to people like Billy Holiday, Sarah Vaughn, Billy Eckstein, Louis Armstrong. You name them; I heard many of them, there. And, my father would drag me to these special concerts. I'm so glad now that he did, because, as I said, he was a jazz musician too, so he played great jazz, and was a strong fan of Louis Armstrong. So, that’s how I learned about the different languages.
MILTON: Would you like to sing us a folk song, like a Filipino song?
VANGIE: Oh, maybe later, (laughs) not right now.
MILTON: Describe a typical day in Chinatown, like what was going around you, including the smells and sounds.
VANGIE: Okay, I'd love to do that, (holds book) because I incorporated that in my book called Seven Card with Seven Manangs Wild and I also incorporated [that] in this book too, Twenty-Five Chickens and a Pig for a Bride: Growing up in a Filipino Immigrant Family (holds book). This is the Seven Card Stud (holds book). I'd like to just quote from that: “From our house, we could walk few a blocks to the Oakland Main Library, and Cole Elementary School was just around the corner. Chinatown, close by, was always teeming with people of all ages, and at all hours of the day and evening. We did most of our grocery shopping there, because ingredients, for cooking Filipino food, was available to us. Our weekly shopping forrays(sp?) were an exciting array of sights, sounds, and smells. We were enclosed by narrow streets, surrounded by small open shops, displaying fresh produce, fruit, and fish, extending on the sidewalks for easy access. The aroma of dim sum, steamed dumplings, rice cakes, roasting pigs, ducks, and chicken, filled our nostrils, sometimes, our hungry stomachs, when we stopped for lunch or dinner. For just a nickel, we were treated to a large round cha siew bao, steamed barbecue pork bun, plumped piping hot from steamed baskets. Famished, we munched happily as we went in our way to the crowd of people to the abundantly stopped market stalls to buy our weekly groceries.
MILTON: During the pre-interview meeting, you told us that your mother and grandmother were great chefs, yet they needed the right ingredients in order to make Filipino food. Since you tell us Chinatown was the only place to find [the ingredients], can you describe how it was like to find [them]?
VANGIE: Yes. We did search for some of these ingredients at nearby small grocery stores, but they just didn't stock them, and there wasn't very much call for them, for some of these ingredients. So we had to come to Chinatown. We would come at least three days a week – and we would find the ingredients in special meat markets; there was one at 9th and Washington that we frequented, because they had all of the different cuts we wanted to use. One thing I remembered was, right on 8th street, there were crates of live chicken. We choose from that chicken, [and] from that crate. My grandmother would say, “I want that one.” He would weigh it, and she'd say, “No, that's not big enough,” and he had pull out another one from another crate. Then, they plucked them right there and killed them right there, pluck them, clean them, and they would cut it the way grandmother wanted it, or sometimes she would take it completely clean, but not cut up, and she would take it home, and take care of it, and my father did too.
They were very particular in the way they would choose their meat, fowl, poultry, and fruits and vegetables. Some of the ingredients they could find here easily was the bean sprouts, the tofu, and they would chose from tofu barrels of tofu in the special grind that they soak it in; and then, the fresh vegetables, the bok choy, the gailan (sp?) – I can name a few others; At any rate, those were our main ingredients, and especially the noodles; we had to have those fresh, so we would choose them from the noodle factories, here.
My father, being a great chef, and, so was my grandmother's husband, who we called uncle – all three of them did the major cooking. So, the ingredients, [the] fresh ingredients were very important to us. That’s why we came here three days a week. My uncle was the only one who had a car, so we would shop on a Saturday with the car, and during the week, we would come here, with my grandmother or my father, by bus.
MILTON: What special kinds of meat did you use?
VANGIE: We used, pork, lots of pork, and again, they would have the different cuts of pork here, from pigs feet. We even used pigs blood; we cooked with that and called it Danuguan. Many people used it as blood sausages, and other kinds of dishes. And again, chicken was a really important ingredient, so we wanted that very fresh. Of course, what could be fresher than a live chicken, being killed? (giggles)
MILTON: Can you tell me more about the noodle factories and how the noodles were made?
VANGIE: I won't remember how they were made, being a little kid, at the time, but I do remember seeing them packing them through the windows. We'd see them packaging them, the noodles. They were different size, and of course, this is where we got our lumpia wrappers, because we couldn't get those anywhere else. When we couldn't find lumpia wrappers, we would use the wonton wrappers.
MILTON: Could you name some of your favorite dishes?
VANGIE: Oh! So many! (laughs) Well, I'll talk about the restaurant we frequented when we were growing up. (Pause) Well, in terms of the racial prejudice in the Bay Area, and throughout California, Fillipinos were not allowed to eat in different restaurants, especially American restaurants. We had to come to Chinatown because we felt accepted; and also we liked the food.
Our favorite place was the Central Cafe, which was on the corner, I think, of either 8th or 9th and Franklin. It was a special restaurant, because they would have booths, where they had the closed curtains, so we would feel very private there. We went with our family of about six. We would order all the different dishes. One of them, my favorite, my sister and I talked about it on the phone the other day, is ham yeok,which is a salty fish and then the pork. We would always have bean cake, tofu, with pork and green onions, and we would always have a whole fish, which you couldn't find elsewhere. The fish would be in the tanks, and we'd choose the fish for them to cook. We would always have different types of vegetables mixed in different types of meat. Another favorite place of ours is the Silver Dragon. Those were two older restaurants here. I believe the Silver Dragon still exits; it does exist, because I know the owners.
MILTON: Can you explain what a lumpia wrapper is?
VANGIE: Lumpia wrapper is like your wonton wrapper [or] your egg roll wrapper. You know about egg rolls? Let's just say they're similar. This is what I like about the Asian foods; there are some similarities. We all have a wrapped type of dish. Our foods are similar; rice is our basis for all Asians. Of course, this is where we able to get rice. And we would buy good rice here in Chinatown.
MILTON: You mentioned that pool halls and gambling places existed when you were young. Can you describe what they were like and where were they?
VANGIE: The gambling places were scattered. There were, I think there were some on 8th street, up above. There were some places up above. I would like to just check on an article here on Uncle Eddy's Restaurant,written by Ben Mendosa (holds a book). He worked in Chinatown in a restaurant owned by his uncle, and this restaurant served Filipino food, primarily. He was about 14, when we worked at the restaurant; he worked as a busboy.
There were days where he would notice that there was a locked door behind the restaurant, and he was not allowed to go in there. But, he would notice that people were coming, and they would go directly back there, and they were able to get in by a special knock, or a special ring. He was told not to go in there. He says, “I can still see my uncle speaking in loud voice, wagging my finger at me and pointing to the forbidden door.” So in other words, he was not go in here.
One day, his uncle had left for a while and he was able to go in the room and he found tables with green tablecloths and poker chips; I think it was pai gao, or whatever they call that. He found that there and -- I'll describe what he saw. He said, “Upon entering, I saw the light streaming through the open door, three or four half-moon tables with stools around each table. The table closest to me, had in the middle of the top, the alpine of rectangles that followed the contours of the table. All the tables were covered with a green cloth. I guess that blackjack and pai gao were played on the tables. The clacking noise came from the tiles used in pai gao.”
He said, “I took a last look and then closed the door and hurried to the front of the restaurant, because I knew that if my uncle ever found out what I had done, he would have given me a tounge-lashing, and then he might have fired me from my job.” He said, “I needed the money. It was very difficult for Filipino youths to get a job.”
Well, one day, they were working in the restaurant, and his uncle had just gone into the back room. “It wasn't until he saw this car drive up, and it was cops. And, they started to get out of the car and I realized that they were Oakland policemen. He ran to the cash register, and was about to press the buzzer, button, when my uncle yelled from the back door to leave it alone and for me to start cooking rice at the large pot, and the two policemen entered the restaurant and greeted my uncle.
My uncle returned the greeting and asked the officers about their respective families. In the meantime, I had measured out eight cups of rice and was washing it in the sink. I heard the cash register bell ring, and out of the corner of my eyes, I saw my uncle raise the money tray, and pulled out two envelopes. He gave one to each of the officers, saying, 'Just a little something, for the family for the holidays.' One of officers said, 'Thanks Eddy, hope you have a great Christmas!' And with that, both officers left.”
And[,] he said that no one had to explain to him what was in the envelopes. “What I wanted to know, and did not dare ask my uncle, was how much was in the envelopes?” At any rate, they paid off the cops in order for them to gamble. Ben said he saw these cops later, as he was growing up, and especially in front of the restaurant or just driving around Chinatown. And one day, he said, “I heard the police car stop in front of the restaurant, and six police officers got out of the police car and went in the restaurant, and from my vantage point, less from a block from the restaurant, I heard loud noises that sounded like furniture being roughly moved. A few people walked by and peered into the restaurant, but most people kept walking, seemingly oblivious to what was happening. And then, he saw his uncle exit the front door, and on the sidewalk, my uncle and the police continued their conversation. My uncle was left standing in front of the restaurant, speaking to passerbys. I waited another five minutes and returned to rest. My uncle was wiping down the counter, and all he said to me was, 'Put away the groceries, and get ready for the evening customers.' He never mentioned the incidents that I had just witnessed. Many years later, I learned that I had just witnessed a routine police raid. This way, nothing illegal was ever found on the premises that was raided.”
Because they had emptied it all out before the police came in. And so later, he said he remembered these policemen wandering around Chinatown, doing their beat. He said, “As I watched the police cruise down 8th Street, I shook my head and said to myself, that it was probably better to let be sleeping dogs lie; I'll leave it to the dispassionate historian to chronicle the Oakland that I knew in the late 1940's.”
So, in other words, he wondered if he was going to, you know, ever tell on them on the illegal gambling, and he decided to let that lie. Yes, there was [illegal gambling], and I remembered some of the places where my family played to play, what they called the lottery. It's like keno today, where they had a sheet of paper that had numbers on it, in Chinese. You take a special brush, like a calligraphy brush, dip it in ink, and you mark these numbers; and they would come out. When the time came, they would come out with a piece of paper, with holes, and you place it over the piece that you marked, and if you show up a certain number, then you win. For instance, the six spots was really, very good winnings; Three spots, you didn't win. But, anything over six or eight was pretty good winnings. They would always have the children mark the numbers for the adults, and then they would go and play it; so we were gambling illegally too as little kids. But, I remember one spot where they said, if you do three in a row this way, or six in a row, that was like a train going through; and if you win that way, you win very big, because you played it as a train.
MILTON: How did the pool halls and gambling places affect you?
VANGIE: One way is that when we would come to Chinatown, we would have to wait for our elders to play the games and we would have to wait in the car, or my grandmother would take us walking around Chinatown, or we would have to spend more time waiting; so, that was how it really affected me; it was the way [we] wait[ed] for them,[and waited for] the numbers to come out, or waiting for them to play their special pai gao. But most of the time, they didn't take us. When my grandmother was working in the shipyards, and she would work at night – she had the night shift – my uncle would take care of us in the evening, and after dinner, he would take us to a movie, [and] he would come to Chinatown to play, and he would gamble.
MILTON: Did you like going to the gambling halls?
VANGIE: I couldn't go in to the gambling halls. That was just restricted to adults. I would just see him go in, but we couldn't go in; and my grandmother couldn't go in, because it was mostly men that gambled.
MILTON: Did you hear any sounds or what the looks were like in the gambling halls?
VANGIE: No, no, because, they were closed, I mean, [this was] illegal gambling; they kept it in the back rooms, so you couldn't here from the front what was going on; we just knew they were gambling back there; and we all knew it was illegal.
MILTON: Did you ever want to go in to the gambling halls?
VANGIE: The only time I really ever wanted to go is when we went to the gambling halls in Isleton in Walnut Grove; then I really wanted to go in, because I was curious because I was a little older, and I wanted to see what they were like.
MILTON: For your childhood, what did you do for fun? Did you listen to the radio, watch TV ..?
VANGIE: [I] loved [the] radio. We didn't have television; we lived in the ice age (chuckles). Radio was very, very important to us, and we listened to special programs; and, we had to use our imagination, and I think that was great, using our imagination and being creative in the listening. The other [thing that we did] was we played outdoors, and that was so wonderful because we played a lot of games [that] you couldn't do today, and you don't see children playing, like the clapping games, and the jump rope, and hide and seek. Those were great [times]. We had a whole block of kids that got together after school and we would play out there until dark; and, those were safe days in terms of kids playing in the streets; and I miss that, because our kids don't have that today.
MILTON: Were your friends mainly Chinese or did you have non-Chinese friends?
VANGIE: Mixture. I had Chinese friends, I had Black friends, [because], I was very interested in ethnic cultures and [I] studied their music and food; and I still do to this day. I had collected recipes from all over the world and from all ethnic groups; I've tried most of them. I was very lucky, my late husband was a gourmet cook, and he was very interested in all of the different types of cooking. And because I worked for the Berkeley co-op for many years, I was into consumer issues and talking about food; I worked on handout sheets with the home economists or I worked with them on special cookbooks, and that's when I started documenting Filipino food recipes, because at that time, we just didn't have any. People didn't know Filipino food, and we're working on that now.
That's one of the greatest things I think is coming up --presenting Filipino food in a different light, because people just don't know it, so we want to make that a little bit more mainstream, and there are two cooks now from New York who have [a] fabulous restaurant, and [they] are doing a really great presentation on Filipino food.
MILTON: What music did you listen to on the radio?
VANGIE: I listened to everything! There was the standard music station, Standard Oil Music Station; they did classical, and I can still remember, because this sticks in my mind, because I learned about my name. Evangeline is my real name, and we learned about the story of Evangeline and Gabriel through music, which was the Longfellow poem, and I also learned a lot about classical music through that particular station; of course, I listened to all of the other things, like the Lone Ranger – I don't know if you heard of them, the Lone Ranger – and also mysteries; I was really into mysteries.
MILTON: Can you describe the food and culture in Chinatown and how it is unique from the rest of Oakland?
VANGIE: Oh! The cooking is incredible. I think Chinese cooking beats French cooking, or even, maybe you can confuse the two, but the Chinese food stands out, I think. I love the way one can take one kind of ingredient and cook it 365 different ways, so you can have dishes that can be made, like fish, hundreds of different ways; But I believe Chinese chefs are some of the most fabulous in the world; I've been to China, and I've eaten through China, at various places there and I felt, “You know, Chinatown is as every bit as good.”
When we were at Chicago a few years ago, we went to a Chinese restaurant, it was advertised as one of the best; we looked at the menu and put it down, there were twenty of us. We put the menu down, and we said, “We're from Oakland, California. Do what you can to beat Oakland.” And they did the menu, and we said, “We're not even going to choose from [the menu]. There's twenty of us and we want just what we would have in Oakland.” And they really tried to beat Oakland, [and] did really well, I have to say, they did really well. Oakland's got it.
MILTON: Did people approach food differently in Chinatown, for example, with more reverence?
VANGIE: Oh, yes. Definitely. I think with care, and with special cooking methods, and with beautiful presentation, and good seasonings. Yes.
MILTON: Can you describe the discrimination you faced when you were young? Did you experience any discrimination between Asians?
VANGIE: Yes, yes we did. There was discrimination against Asians in general, and when I was growing up, I would see signs that said “No Filipinos allowed, no Dogs allowed.” You see that Central Valley, which is why we would aim for Chinese restaurants to eat there, and when we were traveling, we had to bring our own food to picnic because there weren't any open restaurants, or we didn't feel comfortable going into them.
Yes, there was prejudice. When the war broke out, Filipinos were targeted as Japanese everywhere we went. So, in some cases, even in Chinatown, the Chinese thought we were Japanese, and would sell us inferior rice – so that was a discrimination right there. So, we would go around with big buttons that said “I am a loyal Filipino-American”, and we had to use those everywhere we went. I remember when my sister went to Chinatown to buy rice, and she went alone, and she bought the rice, and she went home with it and it had all kinds of rocks and pebbles in it, and it was just inferior. My grandmother was very upset and she got back on the bus with my sister and they went back here to the store and said, “You sold us some terrible rice and we want good rice,” so he exchanged it, [and] that was nice.
But yes, we had some problems here. But then we had it everywhere else, not just from the Chinese. We had from the Americans, particularly, because they couldn't tell one Asian from another. I shouldn't say Americans, but I would say whites, but my grandmother would refer to White people as Americanos at that time.
MILTON: Why do you think food is so important in Chinatown?
VANGIE: Why it's so important? Well, it's the staple of life; it's what keeps us nurtured and it has great nutrition, because it has a wonderful mix of ingredients, especially fresh vegetables and, the meat is fresh; everything is fresh, primarily. It's nutritionally good.
MILTON: Did you go to college?
VANGIE: Yes.
MILTON: Where did you go?
VANGIE: I went to San Jose State, and then later, I went to University of San Francisco and got my degree there.
MILTON: What was college life like for you, academically?
VANGIE: At San Jose, it was very difficult, because we were the only Filipino kids there; there were about three of us, and that was difficult because we didn't have very much acceptance, and we felt lonely and I was away from home; I was, a good fifty miles, away from home. I was having to learn how to eat other types of food, because you couldn't get rice. Rice was a staple for us, and I had to learn how to eat other types of staples to make up for rice. My sister never learned; she still eats rice with her spaghetti (giggles).
So any rate, yes, it was a difficult adjusting, but I did. I met the professor who taught economics [and] became my husband, my first husband; he had taught at Stanford and was teaching at San Francisco State, and that's where I learned about the economics and the terms of way of doing business, which was the co-op; and, so I got interested in food and how its processed and learned a lot about food that way.
MILTON: Can you describe your family's relationship with Whites or Americans? Was it positive or negative?
VANGIE: Some of it was positive, some of it was negative. My grandmother, particularly, would hide her fish sauce and all of her different types of ingredients from the dining room table when she would have, what she called, Americano, or white guests. They distrustful of whites; however, because we lived next door to Portuguese and Italians, who were very accepting of us, [my grandmother] felt comfortable with people like that, but [whites] who would come in outside of [West Oakland], she was very uncomfortable with them. She felt they would make fun of her food, and the way that she ate, and just of her in general. And when she would go out by herself, she was called – I'll use the word; I hate to use it, but the way that she would be described as that – “Go back to where you belong, you Chink!” That kind of stuff. It was hard for her; and because she couldn't read or write, it was difficult for her get around and to read signs, and so fourth. But any rate, she was treated in a very discriminant way, and that’s why she was very leery of Caucasians.
MILTON: How did this affect your own attitude?
VANGIE: Well, [as] young kids at that time, we wanted to be American. So, we would go to an American movie and we would be influenced by movies, like movies with Betty Davis and, I'll give you an example: My grandmother smoked with a cigarette backwards in her mouth, lid in inside her mouth , and that was a big custom for Filipino women of her generation; and, I would be very embarrassed when she would do that, because Betty Davis didn't smoke that way; she smoked with a long cigarette holder, so I identified with that, and I said “I want to smoke like that instead of like my Grandma.”
Now, I appreciate what she did. So, there were things like that. Also, I wanted to learn English, because that was the way to be acclimated and I wanted to be a teenager. I mean, I was listening to Frank Sinatra, and all this at that time, that was the big thing, [and] Bobby Sox. I wanted to dress American; I did not want to be identified with the old country, so to speak.
So, we tried to be American. I would have white friends, of course, I had Mexican friends, Puerto Rican, Basques, Italians. I was more outgoing because we were going to American schools. My grandmother was not; she was confined to her home, [so] that was pretty much her social life and the people who came to her.
At the same time that we were learning English and reaching out of the broader community, we also widened a gap between our parents because we would come and use words that [my grandmother] didn't understand, and we would have to translate for her; so she began to feel we were snobby, because we were using these big words. So, yes, we had problems, and I think a lot of young people today, immigrants have that problem with their problems. So that's why I wrote about it.
MILTON: What did you want to do after high school and college?
VANGIE: I wanted to be a teacher, and I didn't, because I got married early, and had three children, and continued my education as I was growing up, and didn't get my degree until I was in my forties. But I did work. I worked at the co-op and worked my way up in the co-op.
I also wanted to be a musician, and I did; I became a musician. I've performed in concert stage and radio, and sang, and I sang many, all kinds of songs, folk music particularly, and was concentrated on American ballads and Philippine songs; and I almost became – I'll tell you this one, since you asked.
Have you heard of the Limeliters? Well, any rates, they were very famous in the sixties; they were a folk-music group, and it started out as the Gateway Singers in the Bay Area. I auditioned for them and I got the job. It was a four hour audition, but I didn't go because I had three small children at the time. I took the job, but I didn't go.
I really had to think about it -- Malvina Reynolds; I don't know if you knew her, but she was my mentor. And, she said, “You know, if you stay behind and not go to the nightclub scene, you'd still be able to be with your children, and you'd still be able to do the music you like to do.” So, that’s how I became a folk-music, guitar teacher, and I taught for twenty-five years and continued performing; and then my daughters and I performed on concert stage and radio, and we ended up playing for Harry Belafonte at one of his galas.
MILTON: Did your desire to be American affect your family?
VANGIE: Absolutely. Now my father was very Americanized in many ways, so he pushed for the American education; he really did. My grandma did too, but my father more so, because he had more of an American background, because he was in the American Navy, and he became a chef there as well as musician. So, he fostered our reaching out into the American community because he did.
My grandmother was hesitant because she just couldn't speak the language, particularly, and she couldn't read, so that was why she held back. So when we got this education, even though she pushed it, and we did a lot of reading and we bring home books, she couldn't participate. So that affected her, especially when we started using big words she couldn't understand. And, we would bring home kids that she didn't quite understand; you know teenagers at that time. That was hard on her. Yes, it did affect her, and I looked back on it at now, and I wished that I was a little bit more understanding, but I was also pushing to be American at the time; that’s what kids do.
MILTON: How did World War II affect you, your family, and the community?
VANGIE: Very hard, because my father was called back to the Navy at the time, and my mother became ill at that time, so they were both gone during the war, and left us as the war broke out. I went to live with my grandmother, who I was just talking about, and that was very new for us. Because of the war, my father had to leave, that was very devastating for me because I felt abandoned by both my parents. The other part of the war was the way Asians were treated, and racial prejudice. And also for my father, when he was in the Navy, even during the war, they would want to strip him because they thought he was a monkey, and that he had a tail; and I think other Asians at the time were treated this way.
We couldn't buy sugar and meat; we would have to use rationing stamps to buy food. We had to collect all types of materials to give to the war effort. We were cut off of the Philippines, so our families couldn't be in touch with their families there. We were subject to blackouts, raids, here in Oakland. We were limited in terms of gas, buying gas [and] sugar, butter, all of it; we were all very limited, but the hardest part was the war itself, and what that war did, in terms of interning the Japanese, which I though was extremely unfair, and my grandmother did too; and then, of course, it affected us.
MILTON: Can you describe what life was like for the Filipinos living in Chinatown?
VANGIE: Yes, we had our restaurant in Chinatown. A lot of the Filipino men lived in boarding houses around Chinatown at the time, because they didn't have families because they couldn't marry. Many of them didn't bring wives here and they were not allowed to marry whites, but they could marry other races, but many did not; so, there were a lot of single men, so we were a mixture here in the Bay Area: Alameda, Oakland, Berkeley. But, most of the single men who worked in Alameda – Bay Farm Island – lived in Oakland Chinatown. But if they weren't working for the season, they would come in and live here in Oakland.
These businesses were important to them in terms of the Filipino restaurants, [because] then, they could get homemade Filipino food. These restaurants were primarily serving the Filipino single men, not families, so they didn't, you know, last very long because they couldn't make it in terms of profits, and so fourth.
My grandmother had the restaurant for one year, or so, and we worked in that restaurant. The hard part of that-- I was around sixteen and my sister was maybe about fourteen -- some of the Filipino menwere so hungry for Filipino women that they would do things like molest us in the restaurant, like try to touch us, that kind of stuff. My grandmother felt that she had to close the restaurant or at least not have us work there anymore. So, that was kind of hard. But, it did serve a purpose for the Filipino men, who had to have their Filipino food. It was not frequented by Chinese. Mostly the Filipino men.
MILTON: Can you say more about how World War II affected you personally?
VANGIE: (pause) Mostly, because my father was in battle, in the Pacific and I found that very difficult because I thought he would die from bombing of his ship; He was on the battleships. I felt isolated in many ways because I didn't have my mother and I didn't have my father, but I did have grandmother and her husband. They helped us and nurtured through that very rough period, during the war.
I remember in [the] block, we would be caught in someone's home during a blackout, [and] the air raid siren would go on, and we were caught in one of the houses. The streets were dark and we couldn't get home and they wouldn't let us out. I remember my uncle coming to get us to take us home. Those were hard years: the blackouts, the rationing, and that feeling of isolation and the prejudice that went on. [It] seems like whenever there's a war, prejudice escalates, and you become profiled, and that's happening today, and we need to do something about that, because history seems to repeat itself. We were racially profiled, quite a bit.
MILTON: Did other family members own businesses in Oakland Chinatown?
VANGIE: My grandmother just owned that one particular [restaurant], but then, other friends owned businesses like the photograph shop; in fact, this was one of the photos from that photo shop in Chinatown; it's on the cover of my book (holds book, Twenty-Five Chickens and a Pig for a Bride: Growing up in a Filipino Immigrant Family), and that's my family. And then there was the Dry Cleaners that my cousin's mother owned; in fact, she wrote a little story on the back of this book about the dry cleaners of her mother, and that, again, was a place where Filipino men congregated, because that was home; She was like host mother of Filipino single men, and that was when they could talk, and she would cook for them there. She would also -- the men would also do a lot of smoking [cigarettes] backwards too.
MILTON: How did the prejudice in World War II affect you personally?
VANGIE: As I said, emotionally, we were afraid. We thought we were going to be bombed, so we were constantly thinking of shelter, finding shelter, learning about where to go, if the bombs should fall. I was about ten or eleven. It was mainly being separated from my father that I felt the extreme loneliness and worrying about his safety, although my grandmother and her husband, uncle, were very caring to us, I still felt that loss, that deep loss, and that’s how the war affected me, primarily. And all the other things that were going on in the community.
MILTON: What major events in your life took place in Chinatown?
VANGIE: Oh, birthdays, at different restaurants, [at] the Silver Dragon, and also at the Central Cafe. I had my wedding dinner there and – I had the big wedding dinner and celebration in Palo Alto, but we came back here for a family, look like a day after our wedding, we came back here to Chinatown, because that was our tradition, [which] was to have Chinese food, otherwise it wouldn't be wedding or a birthday unless we had Chinese dinner here. So, those were major events for us, and very happy ones. Like I said, my uncle knew the proprietor, so we had very nice service, and they knew us, and treated us wonderfully.
MILTON: Can you tell us about your father coming home from the war?
VANGIE: Yes. In fact, I wrote a chapter on that. We were so excited. When my father would write letters, we couldn't really tell what he had to say, because the letters were cut off. They would cut some of the writing, and you get these letters with all these different parts cut out, and it looked like paper dolls, because of the security. So, we couldn't hear very much in terms of information, but there was one part of it that we read that said, “I will be coming home soon.” I remember just being so elated.
And then we learned later, the day he was coming home, and, of course we came to Chinatown; we had to buy all the food from Chinatown because we were going feed him when he got [home] and we were going to have a big family celebration. Yes, I do remember that; I remember what I wore. I remember the, cleaning up the house, my grandmother and uncle preparing the food, all of my father's favorite dishes. One of them [was] bittermelon (laughs). And then, the day came, he came out of the taxi cab, and there he was in full uniform, and we were all rushing down to meet him and greet him. It was a fabulous moment for all of us.
MILTON: How did the Chinatown community react to the end of World War II?
VANGIE: I just don't know about the Chinese community, I just remember the entire community; there was just a big, big celebration. I remember people just feeling elated. There were all kinds of things going on all over the place. [The] firecrackers went out. I remember my family was jumping for joy. All communities; it wasn't just Chinatown, that I remember.
MILTON: Can you tell us about the celebrations?
VANGIE: I remember seeing newsreels of people jumping around and mobs of people on the streets in San Francisco, and in Oakland, and in our neighborhood. I remember being outdoors on the street with neighbors and we were all shouting and screaming, “The war is over! The war is over!” And all the kids mingling around them, too. That was what I remember.
MILTON: What were the demographics in Chinatown when you were a child? How have they changed and how did the changes in demographics affect your life?
VANGIE: It has definitely changed. You see more [of] a new mixture here in Chinatown. It used to be all Chinese, and now, you see more of a mixture now. There's Vietnamese, there's some Korean, and Filipinos.
Um, I thought of something I want to mention [about] when we were talking about the restaurants and food. There used to be American-Chinese restaurants that were so wonderful [and] you don't see that anymore, where they cook American food; the menu had American food and it Chinese food. That was the best American food I ever ate, was in the Chinese restaurant.
So, when we were talking about chefs, I just wanted to go back to that because I had forgotten about it, and [those were] so fabulous. They were strung along Broadway [Avenue], the Chinese-American restaurants. You just don't see [them] anymore. They served the best mashed potatoes, and gravy, and roast beef, you know, just real American food, fried chicken, along with the all of the other Chinese dishes.
[BREAK]
MILTON: We are resuming our interview with Vangie Buell. You said there were many single Filipino men. Did they ever assimilate into the larger culture, and what helped this to happen, and what were the obstacles?
VANGIE: Many did not, because they didn't have families, or children to help them get into the community like my parents did, especially my father and my uncle, and other members of family. Some of the men that did. I have done research lately, and I learned that some of single men did assimilate, but then were rejected. We found a photo of twelve aviators, Filipino pilots, who were taking lessons in flying here in Alameda. The flight school was owned by a Filipino, and that school, flight school, lasted from 1936-1942, when the war broke out. Many of those men did not assimilate, like go into flying commercial airlines, because they were rejected.
One man did go into the garage mechanic, and he opened the very first Filipino owned garage, in Alvarado, which is now Union City. So yes, some of them did assimilate. Some of them, Filipino men, went to school; they actually went to Cal, and earned degrees, but they couldn't get into their field, so many of them ended up in domestic work, working in restaurants, or working as, what they considered, houseboys at the time. Those were the obstacles, and many returned to Philippines because they were too humiliated to do janitorial work or domestic work and not be able to work in their field, especially if they were very well educated.
MILTON: Can you say more about what life was like for the Filipinos living in Chinatown?
VANGIE: Those who were living in Chinatown, most of them were the single men, and others, who are the people who owned businesses, but they lived outside Chinatown. I want to go back to one of the restaurants, that did open up in the early Fifties, and that is the Love's Pagan Den, and they did a beautiful job, because they were the first to serve Filipino food in a gourmet way, in terms of presentation and doing Filipino foods in a different way, and also to make it still Filipino style, and make it more presentable. They did a wonderful job at that. And, they did a lot of catering in the Bay Area; in fact, they catered my 60th birthday.
They now moved to Hilo, Hawaii, and they have a bed and breakfast, and apparently doing very well, in terms of cooking. They were very influential in their cooking. They would use a Caesar salad dressing, and that's a, you know, very popular dressing. They would,(sp?), Filipino fish paste, and patis (sp?), which is a fish sauce. It is just delicious. I do that now. People wonder, “Wow, this is fabulous dressing!” So, they started that.
And then there was the photo shop, they did very well, in terms of photos for Filipinos and I still have quite a few of their photographs that they did of Filipino-Americans, and all of their activities that they had here. It was the photo shop, they learned the lighting to light Filipino their skin. So, they did a very nice job of black and white. I thought this one, (holds book, looks at book cover, Twenty-Five Chickens and a Pig for a Bride: Growing up in a Filipino Immigrant Family) they did very well. You can see the features. I thought they did the lighting very well. I don't know if I have any others to show here (looks). Well any rate, so they did okay, and there was radio shop, that the Monticello's had, and there were other Filipino restaurants that catered to the Filipino men particularly.
MILTON: You mentioned that your family ran a boarding house in the restaurant from your home.
VANGIE: That was primarily, yes, they did some boarding. It was not a restaurant, but Grandma cooked for eight to ten Filipino men who did not have families. Our family was their family. They worked in Mare Island, and they would come to my house, they worked in other places too, but Mare Island mostly.
They would come to our house for dinner every evening, and she would spread out a full dinner for them. She only charged for the cost of food; she cooked primarily for free, in terms of her labor. Two of the Filipino men who boarded there, on a regular basis, and that would change from year to year, depending on where they worked; some of them worked in Bay Farm Island, or in other farm areas here. When they were through with the season, they would live with us until [it was] time to go to the Alaskan fisheries to work.
MILTON: What would you say are the major contributions Filipinos made to the Chinatown culture?
VANGIE: Well, there were barbershops. Not only for Filipino men, [but also] for Chinese men too. Some men went to the same barber shops for many years. George Catambay had the same customers for many years, and he died close to a hundred years old. I even knew one person who went to him until he was eighty years old. He provided a good service to the community here in Chinatown, and so did the other two barbershops. I think Fernandez was one of the names, and there's another name I can't recall at the moment. There were at least three main barbershops, as well as pool halls. There was the Baldemero Pool Hall, where the Filipinos hang out.
That was home to them, that was their living room. They did quite a service to Filipinos, because they had no other homes to turn to. They didn't have families, so these public places were very, very important to their social life. That's where they congregated: they would hear news, they would gossip, and they would keep up with what was going on, and that was definitely a very very important social [place] for them.
MILTON: Why did your family act as a family for the single Filipino men, and how did this affect you personally?
VANGIE: Well, it was very important because there were very few Filipinos here in America, at that time, and we had to stick together in order to survive. So, it was important because there were no social services for us; we had to do our own social services. Many of them couldn't read or write or understand forms or businesses practices, and those that did would help them do that. When they got in trouble, we would all take care of them, because the police certainly didn't. Police were just as corrupt and prejudiced against anyone of color, at the time, so we had to do our own, taking care of our own.
So that's why. It was important to me as a child, because I remember helping the men fill out forms, to apply to whatever they needed to apply for. Some of them apply for citizenship, and I was only about twelve. I would write and fill out all the questions for them, and my uncle did the same. So, yes, like the Filipino church, the pool halls -- these were social services too. They acted as social services to the Filipino men who needed help.
MILTON: How did this affect you personally?
VANGIE: My grandmother was a very wise woman; and, she felt very important to learn about our culture, our heritage, and about people, primarily about people, and she made us appreciate what we were doing. She said, “If you’re working with brains, you need to work with your hands, and you also reach out to people, and also know there are rich and there are poor, but they are people and you accept them all.”
It was important to me as a kid. I remember feeling very, very good about the Filipino men. They were very caring, [and] we were their children; we were a rarity to them. All of them, even the women. They were a village to us. They cared about our schooling; they encouraged education. When they gambled, they would give us money from their gambling, and it's called bulatto, and they said, “Now, you go and choose whatever you want”, and of course, we go buy comic books (laughs).
But any rate, they cared for us. Even the men who sat at the dinner table, at my grandmother's house, would always ask us about school that day. Very first thing: What did you do at school? They wanted to know everything about what happened about school, because they couldn't have it for themselves; they didn't have the children. Because they cared about us and paid attention to us, this was great for us kids; we loved it because we got all this wonderful attention.
MILTON: What trouble did Filipinos get in and how did you protect them from the police?
VANGIE: Fighting. They got into a lot of fights at dances, and especially at dances, and we would see out of the corner, that somebody over there was fighting over something, maybe over a girl, and a knife would come out, and there would be stabbing; but, we took care of it, right at the (sp?). The men did, all the men just got around there and they would not call the police, because we knew the whole community would get in trouble, at that time.
I wrote a story about my grandmother who was stabbed by a Filipino in the Central Valley here. I won't go into detail, but, the fact is -- the guy who stabbed her -- they would not call the police on him; they were going to take care of it. The men tried to find him, but they couldn't. They knew that if he had been reported, there was nothing the police would do. They did not come to our rescue. If they did come to our rescue, they beat everyone up; whomever was sitting around, that would be it. And that's the way it was, and you hear stories in Watsonville and in other areas in California, where the police would come in raid, some of the houses and so forth and just beat up Filipinos in general.
MILTON: Why did the boarding home closed and how did you feel – ?
VANGIE: It was my grandmother's home, and of course, the Filipino men grew older and retired, and there was no need for the services any longer; and then, we grew up and left home, so there was no longer an incentive to do it.
MILTON: Do you have any funny stories to tell about Chinatown, sad stories, funny moments?
VANGIE: (Giggles) I can't think of any right now. Like what? Sad story? (pauses) I can't think of anything off head.
MILTON: You mentioned before you recognized a man with a booming voice when you were in Shanghai?
VANGIE: Oh yes. When I was a young girl, we shopped in Chinatown and we would hear this man, wonderful man, and his booming voice shouting above all the customers, especially when the fruits and vegetables came in on the truck, and he would shout orders and so forth; he used to talk to my uncle a lot; he was a friend of my uncle. He would always ask about us and see us and he'd pat us on the head and say hello with his big booming voice. When I went to China in 1975, we were in one of the hotel restaurants and I heard this voice and I recognized it, and I said, “Oh my god, that's him”, and I couldn't remember his name, but there he was; we recognized one another and I told him who I was and he recognized who I was. That was just an incredible moment. Here, all the way in China in 1975, when China first opened. It was the first year that diplomatic relations had been established. I felt lucky I was able to go; I was there for six weeks.
MILTON: What kind of work have you been doing most or all of your adult life?
VANGIE: Mostly with people; I worked with the consumers co-op at Berkeley. I was their program director. I wrote for co-op news, a weekly column. I did a lot of special events and activities with people, especially around food, [like] food festivals. I did everything from British to Black history type festivals of food. I worked with the Home Economist on different types of food issues, also on handout sheets, putting together cookbooks and membership activities that included membership [for] joining the co-op, [and] co-op elections and so fourth.
Then, when I left the co-op before it closed, I went to International House at UC Berkeley. I worked with 600 students around the world, including 300 from United States. I did special activities such as lecture series, dances, cultural shows, primarily, special programs on different cultures. I did galas, concerts, everything; I did two thousand events a year there, and I was in charge of the details of activities that went on there. I worked with the program office. I worked at campus; I worked with the chancellors on their big galas and so fourth. And then, of course, I was also the guitar teacher and performer during my years in the co-op, so I did that in the evenings.
MILTON: Did you want to work in Chinatown or outside of Chinatown?
VANGIE: No, I never really worked in Chinatown. However, as part of my work in International House, I oversaw the elder hostel program where people over fifty-five [years-old] came to take classes and we featured our professors from Cal. We would take them on side trips, and one of the main things we did was we take them here to Chinatown; so I took them here on special tours, and guided them, and also we would eat in Chinatown. So, that was one of my main events with the elder hostel. So, I did a lot of that and I also did it with campus and I also did it with our residents, who came all over the world, and some all over the United States, who have never eaten Chinese food before in their lives. So, we would bring them here, and I organized that, from I-House, as part of my program.
MILTON: Do you still live in Chinatown? If not, where?
VANGIE: No, I don't live in Chinatown, now. But, I come here often, especially to eat and especially to shop; even though I do shop at the Ranch now, which has better parking, I still love the flavor of Chinatown. You cannot beat the flavor of Chinatown. The smells, the street, the street scene. I love to see the people. I just enjoy it. The Ranch is a supermarket; that's not Chinatown.
MILTON: Why did you bring the people to Chinatown?
VANGIE: Because I wanted them to see Chinatown and experience the people and food, and to also break down the stereotypes. Many of them come from areas where they have never seen an Asian. In fact, I was taking one group along and [someone] said, “You know, I have never seen a Filipino,” and I looked at her (laughed). And, here I am; but any rate, there were a lot of little comments like that, and [I heard], “Are you going to take us to something where we're going to eat Snake?” and all that sort of stuff, and I said, “No.., I'm not going to do that.” (slight giggle)
They had these stereotypes of Chinese and Filipinos -- that Filipinos ate dog and all of that, and I wanted to wipe that away. And so that was part of my cultural program there, my educational program at I-House. Our staff highly believed in that, so we always toured Chinatown. In fact, we could have had Chinese food at Berkeley or El Cerrito and it would have been closer to us, but we decided to take BART, which gave them the BART experience, 60 people; we'd go to the Oakland Museum and then walk down [to Chinatown] for dinner.
MILTON: Were there any funny stories when you all went down to Chinatown? About the food...
VANGIE: About the food... I remember – I've worked with Westly, especially, and he understood where these people were coming from, so I said, “You gotta do your best, and it can't be too unusual (laughs).” But, we want to show them something that is really special. They usually raved, really raved about the food.
MILTON: What are your Chinatown community-related activities, and is it important to stay connected to Chinatown?
VANGIE: Yes, it's very important to stay connected to Chinatown. I don't have any particular – well, I like to come here to the Oakland [Asian] Cultural Center, and I'm also involved with FAA, Filipinos for Affirmative Actionprogram. I keep up with their activities, and some of those are held in Chinatown; in fact, we did a banquet here not too long ago. So yes, I am connected in that way, especially when we do special events here in Chinatown, and I always push for special events to be held here, because I think it's important.
I am also involved – I helped Bill Wong on his book on Chinatown by gathering some of the photos for him. So anytime something like that comes up and also, with the Oakland Museum, I do the Lunar Year, as part of our program there; so that's still part of Chinatown. We do special programs here, in Chinatown, so I do that through the Oakland Museum. Yes, I'm on the Asian Pacific Advisory Council of the Oakland Museum.
MILTON: Why is it important to put events in the Oakland Asian Cultural Center?
VANGIE: Because I think it reaches people that need to know about these events, and know about people, know about culture. We need to share that. I think that's so important to learn about people's cultures, their history and also, our own history, because knowing our own history, we learn to know ourselves, and then we feel better about ourselves and you feel centered and you feel that no matter what, people can't tear you down, because you feel good about where you are, where you come from, and who you are.
MILTON: Can you describe what still remains in Chinatown when you were young? People, places...
VANGIE: Yes, the Silver Dragon, although it's a different building. Some of the stores, Sam Yick, is one of them, that's been there for a number of years, from at least as I was a young woman; that's still there. The Economy Corner, I think that restaurant is still there; that had been there for many years, from I was a little girl. Some of the places where they sell the roast duck that's still there from years and years ago, the fish place on 8th street; Several places there on 8th street are still there.
MILTON: Do you still see Chinatown as an important part of Oakland?
VANGIE: Yes! It's the most teeming part of Oakland right now. You look at the rest of Oakland and it's dead. [Chinatown] is the most alive place, day and night, and you don't see that in other areas of Oakland, it's just so struck-down; You drive a few blocks and it's empty. This is the place where it's really going. This is where the action is. You feel the community. It's alive with community; people are taking part.
You know, when I bring people here, because I have brought people here from Marin, Mill Valley, they have said “We don't want to go to Chinatown, because we think it isn't safe,” and, you know, I said, “C'mon, you're coming with me.” And I have them walk all over the place.
I'll tell you one funny thing that -- My granddaughter, she was about eight years old, or so. And you know, my daughter shops everywhere, and of course, at Chinatown, loves to shop; but she never likes to bring the kids because they were a bother. They would always make noise or wanted this or they wanted that – so she seldom brought them here to shop. One day, the kids wanted to go shopping with her, so she brought [them] along, and little Quiana little eight years old, had never been to Chinatown, never, with her mother, and so, she walked around and she said, “Mom, where did all these Chinese people come from?” (laughs)
And, Mommy said, “Oh my god, what have I lacked here in giving these kids a education?” (laughs) So that's the one thing that I can remember. So Quiana learned fast (giggles). So Mommy started bringing her to Chinatown. Both of my granddaughters are into multicultural education.
MILTON: Why do you think this community is so alive?
VANGIE: Because, people live here. Take a look at this plazANGELA: we have apartments up above and the businesses are thriving and people come. It's a destination; people come from all over, not just the people who live in Chinatown. But you do have that core, and you need that special core of people to be here, and I'm so glad that these apartments opened up because I know a lot of people living with their children in the suburbs, they moved back here because it wasn't there there over there. Here's where it is (giggles), and they moved back; so I think that's great, and I love it.
MILTON: What problems is the Oakland Chinatown community facing today?
VANGIE: Growth in different directions. We now have Vietnamese, we now have other Asians coming in, owning businesses and so forth. I feel that's good, I really feel that's great, but we also need to learn more about one another, and perhaps have some kind of programs to show the diversity of Chinatown. I don't know whether to continue call it Chinatown, because of all the other businesses now – Asians coming in, Cambodians and so forth – that maybe we need to call it something else – Asian-town, or whatever. I also think that's good.
We need to grow and understand the diversity and embrace it. I think our young people need to know more about one another and have a good cross-cultural kind of, because so much of it is that we even do is similar; there is a common denominator that we all work on [and] I think it's important. I see those changes happening here. I'm not sure of all of the nuances of it, but I know there is a change. There must be different kinds of feelings and intensities about it, although I'm not here, directly.
MILTON: What do you think is the most important overall story to tell future generations about your history in Oakland Chinatown?
VANGIE: First of all, I think what you're doing today and all the interviews your doing with people is so important, and that's going to help future generations because, as I said before, that this culture should stay in the minds of people, and be part of -- especially the young people. Because when you to know your culture, then you know yourself. Knowing yourself and understanding other cultures, then we're fostering peace; we're fostering understanding, and that, to me, is what I think should happen, especially with this project.
MILTON: What are some things from your generation that you want to brought on to younger generations?
VANGIE: My history and culture, to be brought down, and I try to do that through the documentation of our book, and other activities that I'm involved in now, so that people can see us. We've been invisible too long, and we need to be seen. I mean, you just don't see us in the mediANGELA: Do you see movies going broadstream of Asians? Not really, you see a few. Our books now are coming out and I think that it's important that these books do come out and they're on the shelves for young people.
I'm so impressed of the [Oakland] Asian Library here, because now you can go to the shelves and pull out books about stories about our history and so forth, and we need to have more of that and broadstream, and across the United States. People coming here to I-House, for instance, for a special program, and have not ever seen an Asian before. Now that's today, they don't live back then. But they should be able to know about us through the media, [but] the media is doing other things, like concentrating on all the bad stuff instead of the good, and especially about people; so I think there should be more programs.
MILTON: What is your message to your children, grandchildren, and future historians?
VANGIE: I think I said something like that on my book, so I'm going to quote that: (picks up book) “Like other Filipino immigrants in the last century, my parents took a journey of hope by leaving their impoverished homeland for United States, and many Asians did, including Chinese. Despite the vicious racial prejudice, my family and other early pioneers persisted in their belief that working hard and fighting for their rights, honoring their own culture and identity and building their community would keep their hope for better future for their children.”
I think that's true for all of our Asian communities today. And the other thing I want to say in closing, (pause) “The message that the hard work, determination, and fighting spirit of the early Filipino immigrants, including my parents, have helped build a vibrant Filipino-American community in United States today.” And I think that's true here in Chinatown. It's a vibrant community, and the Chinese immigrants helped to build that. They are leaving a legacy here, which we must continue. “The accomplishments of the later generations are part of the legacy of these pioneers who believed whatever they ventured, whatever they did, no one can take away their heritage and culture.” And[,] I feel very strongly about that.
MILTON: Have you seen discrimination lessen over the years?
VANGIE: No, It hasn't really. I mean, we still have to fight in that area for our rights. You still see covert type of prejudice. We have made some strides; I'm not saying we haven't made some strides. For instance, now, they had wiped out the Miscegenation Law off the books, which I had to wait, in terms of marrying my husband, at the time. That law was on the books here in California --
ANGELANGELA: What's that law? Can you describe that law?
VANGIE: Yes, the Miscegenation Law is when Asians could not marry whites, or whites could not marry any one of color, and you had to go outside of California to do that, and it was on the books when I was going to marry my first husband; we had to wait about two weeks before we were to marry in order to have it be legal, completely legal. So those kinds of things had been wiped out.
ANGELANGELA: When did that law get wiped out?
VANGIE: It went off the books about 1952. Actually, in fact, around June 1st. It was on the books for a long time. But they cleared it at the time. You see great strides now in economics, and you see better housing, for instances and we had to work towards that, because when we were trying to find a house to rent in Oakland, we were turned away, because they'd see our faces and they'd said, “No, it's already rented,” even though it had been listed and advertised for rent. So you see some areas where we have improved, but not in all areas, because now, with the war going on with Iraq, there's been an escalation of profiling of Asians, of people of color, everywhere, even on the United States, on airplanes. My daughter is pulled off just to be searched; she does business trips, but they think she's Middle-Eastern, but she's, you know, half-Filpina, half-Caucasian. You still have a lot of that, and we need to be aware and find ways to stop that.
And, some of the answers are in places like International House, those type of institutions that help to foster understanding among people, and we need to do this in all of our activities we do, and especially here in Chinatown.
MILTON: Have you seen any discrimination between different Asians?
VANGIE: Oh, yes. Even among Filipinos, you see that, and that's one of the barriers I'm trying to break down right now, and that is the culture of the Philippines-Fillipinos, and the culture of the Filipino-Americans. At one time there was this definite barrier, because – I understand Tagalog very fluently. I don't speak it as fluently as I used to; it was my first language – I used to hear some of the Filipinos that would come over, and they said I was a … how did they put it, I was a Marcos – this was a political, he was the past president – that I was a Marcos follower, [but] I wasn't. I really didn't believe in that.
They would say things like that. I was not Filipino because I didn't speak the language, and that I had an American accent. So, there were lots of things like that; that was kind of discriminating. And then also, they would say Filipinos in California were farm workers only; so we were peasants. So, there was that. And then, I worked in a group in San Francisco called the Filipinos Women Network, and most of them are Filipinos from the Philippines, and there were six of us that joined that group who are Filipino-Americans who are born and raised here, and one of the things I said was that is: No matter what our accents, whether we had a Filipino accent, Chinese accent, or a Filipino-American, or Chinese-American accent, we're still Filipinos, we're still Chinese, because we come from the same roots, and we have a lot of the same customs and beliefs, and that we shouldn't tear each other down, one another down, because we come from either that country, or this country; it's the same for the Japanese, there's been a lot of colliding of culture.
MILTON: How did you feel about the discrimination between Filipinos and Filipino-Americans?
VANGIE: I was very disturbed about it, because here they were speaking in an accent of my folks, of my parents, and I was identifying with them, and I was hungry for that accent because I don't hear it in my own home, today, and for a while, I didn't hear it. And so, I was just joyful to hear that accent; and then to hear them play the music and tell about some of the stories of the Philippines, that I identified with because of my parents, and then to have them feel prejudiced against me because I spoke with an American accent; that just didn't seem right. So, I've worked with them; I have been working with them, and through the Filipino American National Historical Society, we do programs so that we would combine both cultures to learn from one another, so we have lots of activities [which] we learn from another, and I've seen some of that barrier break down, and it's been wonderful.
MILTON: Why are you interested in participating in this project?
VANGIE: Because, I think it's very important (sniffles). I'm feeling very teary-eyed because you're asking me questions that are so very important to me, and very special because I'm working on those things right now. But I think this is important because you're taking this culture – we're taking this culture to future generation[s] and they need to know about it, and learn from it, and feel proud that this is where they come from, that this is the legacy that's left to them, and that they must preserve it and nurture and keep it going (sniffles).
MILTON: What are some of the things between culture of Filipinos and Filipino-Americans that are different?
VANGIE: What are the differences between those born in Philippines and the ones here? Oh, quite a few. Some of it is lifestyle, and some of it is class differences. In the Philippines, you have very poor; 90% of Filipinos is very poor. Poverty is really pretty bad. And then you have the elite and then you have the educated, and that's some of the differences.
For instance, the man who did the blurb on my book is Nick Nore (sp?). Professor and Dean of communications in the University of Philippines, and he did the blurb on my book and he talked about some of the differences here in terms of how Filipinos identify themselves, especially young people, and how they identify themselves and how the Filipinos identify themselves in the Philippines.
And here, some of the young Filipino kids or parents are pushing their kids so far into the academics, and this may not be an area where the students want to go. Yet the parents are pushing them – You must be engineer, you must be this, and you must be that – and that may not be the field they want to go into. But, that's been a heavy thing now, to, in terms of the identification. And then also, the materialism. He has seen a lot of that in young Filipino kids here from the $100 Nike shoes to whatever. And then, like I said, the Filipinos from the Philippines, who think that Filipino-Americans are snobby, especially those are in middle class living style and who are already born and raised here. There is a major difference there.
MILTON: What are the differences between your generation and our generation?
VANGIE: In our – my generations and your generation? (laughs) Oh, maybe you can answer that one better (laugh) than I. Well, age, lifestyle. (pause) Education, perhaps.
MILTON: What are some education differences?
VANGIE: Some of people in my age generation did not go to college, and you are now. And even those who did go to college, they said they wouldn't tutor high school kids today because you have far more knowledge than we did, than we do today. I take a look at my grandchildren; they're 24, 21, and 26, and I hand them the DVD and say, “Put it on for me,” or I'll hand them (giggles) something to do with the computer. I only know two things on the computer, because I write, and that's it; I don't want to learn anything more, where you guys are far more ahead of us in areas like that, especially in science. Those are some of the major differences in terms of education, yeah.
MILTON: What are some of the similarities?
VANGIE: I can just try it with my grandchildren. Their love for family, their love for their culture. My grandchildren now are half-black,[and] my grandson is half Jewish. We appreciate all the cultures within our family because we're multicultural. My granddaughters, identify as being black, because they said this is how they look, and that's how they would be perceived by people, but they also appreciate their grandmother's Filipino background.
In fact, we're going to roll lumpias next week, and we do that as a tradition every year; we do it two to three times a year. Our whole family, including the grandchildren and the grandson, and we sit a a big table, and we roll lumpias, because we feel this keeps that tradition going. I see that similarity among some of the young people today with their parents, and I see a lot of that, even in Filipino families, where the young children are still at home with their parents.
MILTON: All right. What lessons would you like to pass on to the younger generations?
VANGIE: Pretty much what I covered today, in terms of sharing with your culture, and learning more from your parents about their background, and question them now, because you'll be sorry if you don't. I wish I had done more as a young girl. I wish I had appreciated them more. Now, I'm appreciating them today, far more than I did when I was younger. That story is rich. For instance, if you do have family that came from China, and I said, I heard you went to China not too long ago, and that's great, if you can do that. I went to the Philippines at least twice to learn about my family's roots. And somehow now, we're going to be a very diverse country. It's important to know your history, so that you can never be torn down. Nobody can tear you down if you feel good about yourself and, proud; feel proud.
MILTON: What traditions [are] important for the younger generations to carry on?
VANGIE: Um, keeping your current traditions alive. And I'm sure you have plenty, right? Keeping those alive and appreciating it and sharing it, with your family and friends, and in the schools, whenever you can, because I remember, as I said before, when we couldn't share our traditions in the broader community; it was not accepted, and now, just make sure it does get accepted; get it out there.
MILTON: Is there anything else you like to tell us today?
VANGIE: How wonderful this was in being interviewed by you. I enjoyed your questions. They're very deep, very meaningful. And, (sniffles), it was quite an experience for me, a very emotional one, and I appreciate it. Thank you both.
